The following notes have been edited to correct errors and to add explanations and updates. Parenthetical notes and remarks from the original are enclosed in parentheses. Present day [2022] updates are italicized and enclosed in square brackets.
Wednesday, 16 October 1991 - 9:00 AM - CONAMUS (National Coordinating Committee of Salvadoran Women)
We are seated in a small conference room with another U.S. delegation composed of CISPES regional leaders. Isabel Vasquez, who is in charge of communications for CONAMUS, introduces herself and apologizes for the tight quarters. They had not realized that they had two delegations scheduled simultaneously.
"I have been with CONAMUS since its founding. Our Secretary General is not here, so I am assuming the responsibility of attending to delegations in her absence.
"Let me begin with a short history of our organization. We were founded in November 1986 with the goal of promoting the integral development of women, so that we can be conscious of our reality and work for change. Our object is to mobilize people and to struggle for our vindication.
"We were formed out of different committees of women which had already been established, and we now have a broad organization to represent women throughout our country. Recently we have been evaluating our work and have found that it is not sufficient. So we have begun new work with women who were not previously organized.
"Since 1988 we have been consolidating our efforts and working with the grass roots. We have formed new women's committees in different communities in San Salvador. We began by raising our proposals and making a call for the organization of women. Parallel to this organizing of women as instruments of our own destiny, we began to offer technical training, such as classes in tailoring, soy bean preparation, and fruit preparation. We also have created a rotating fund for communities, with the objective of helping our companions. This is necessary because of the crisis we live in, the lack of resources available for women to maintain their homes. Most women are heads of households, responsible for their families, especially the children.
"Ours was the first experience of organizing women in El Salvador. Little had been spoken about the problems of women before this. Up until November 1989 we had about ninety-four communities working with us and the work was moving ahead. But the offensive which the Front launched slowed down our work because it affected our organization.
"They robbed everything from our facility. We had to begin all over again. Everything had been taken by the First Brigade. Colonel Elena Fuentes was in charge at that time. We demanded that everything be returned to us, but the commandante said, 'Our soldiers didn't touch your place.' In fact, the neighbors had seen the truck come up and haul our stuff away. We have always worked openly to defend the rights of women, so we were very surprised that this had happened.
"We work with the problems of gender, and because of this we also find ourselves working with the problems of class, and the economic system which oppresses us. It cost us a great deal to rebuild our infrastructure. After the robbery they started a campaign of accusations against us, calling us a front for the FMLN. When we tried to organize women, we found that our companions had great fear. They were afraid to organize themselves and to attend activities.
"We tried to assure people that we were not a front for the FMLN, and to explain to them what we do. Some women then organized themselves with even more support than formerly.
"We worked without an infrastructure until March 1990. We used the clinic as a center for our work, a place to meet and do our planning. Since we had the clinic, we looked for a way to communicate with Mrs. Cristiani about our needs, and also to counter the accusations against us. After all, she was doing similar work, so our question was, if we are doing work similar to that of the President's wife, why the accusations against us?
"CONAMUS is divided into two large projects, the Center for Development of Women and the Center for the Integral Attention of Women. The Development Center does promotion, training, communications, and education, including the production of a journal, 'Palabra de Muher.' With respect to promotion, we relate to twenty-eight communities, and within them to forty-six groups. We include training in hand crafts and embroidery. We are also undertaking the development of natural medicines. We have educational seminars which address three things: the national reality, the problems of women, and the philosophy of cooperation. We want to form a cooperative of women; training is now going on to begin this project.
"The problems that women face include family planning, abortion, sexual violence, and gender problems. Our communities are mostly located on the periphery of San Salvador, but we also have groups in Chalatenango, Cuscatlan, and La Paz. In all we work with twenty-eight communities outside the city of San Salvador.
"In the field of communications, we publish a bulletin called 'Voice in Action of Women,’ but because of limited resources only two issues were published this year. We also publish the magazine mentioned earlier, and we have a radio program on a commercial station which reaches nationwide. It runs fifteen minutes once a week. It has been a good instrument for communications, because it deals with specific problems of women using grass roots language so that it can be understood by women with very little access to education. This has had good results. We have expanded our work outside the capital only because of this radio program. Women hear it and call in; then we go out and help them to organize.
"As for the training program, we give classes in communities on the outskirts of San Salvador. The first group was graduated in July 1991. It was a beautiful experience; these were women who had never had a chance to learn before. Thirty-one women graduated, walking with their babies, and small children behind them. They were able to show to one another that now they had another way to earn a living toward a dignified life.
"The women downstairs are learning to operate sewing machines. We have three industrial style machines. Just now we have some marvelous projections for more projects so that women have a way to earn a living."
Question: Is the sewing for the market, or just for your own communities?
"We are thinking big - to produce for our own communities, but also to produce high quality items for sale outside the country. Within our communities items will be sold at a low rate so that people can acquire fine things that they could not otherwise afford to buy. We presently sell craft items in our office, some of which have been made by our compañeras."
Question: What is the reaction of men connected with the women who are organizing? Are there any male consciousness raising groups?
"The nature of our work deals with gender problems, but we don't at any time seek to enter into competition with the compañeros. Despite the high level of machismo in our country, our struggle is not directed against men. We think that together we can struggle to build a new society. Despite our efforts, however, we have had many problems with the men. They say that what we are looking for is sexual freedom. Lately, within the past three or four months, has been a difficult period for us because a journalist has directly accused us of trying to break up homes. This journalist says that it is ridiculous that a woman should accuse her husband of rape, because that is what you get married for, to sleep with your husband every night. I think this is basically a misunderstanding. We will give you written material about this.
"We have some problems in the popular organizations. Men can be great revolutionaries and still have great machismo. There are men in the popular movement who are asking, why are women organizing? They think that if men can have three or four women, the women must be seeking to have three or four men. But what we are saying is that if men can ask women for fidelity, then women have the right to ask men for fidelity, also. A small minority of the men understand, but most of them oppose our work. They say that women should be more concerned with the class struggle.
"In our country the rights of women come last on the list. So we don't want to lose our identity as an organization of women. If we don't struggle for this, no one will. Right now the work that we do is not given much importance, but the problems we deal with run very deep. Even if we change the military and judicial systems, the problems we deal with will still be here.
"Fifty-seven per cent of the adult Salvadoran population is female. So we know that at any given moment, people take notice that we are the majority. Political parties aim their propaganda at women."
Question: Is there any gay organizing, either men or women?
"There is no organized movement here, nor are we trying to start one. That is a problem that the vast majority of the population looks down on. So there are homosexuals in this country, but they are very much in the closet. Our organization has no direct contact with this sector, but we believe that they should be respected."
Question: Do the women being trained here go back to their communities and train others?
"This is the ultimate goal, but our program has just gotten started, so it hasn't happened yet."
Question: We have heard about the party movement. What does CONAMUS think about it, and what will be women's demands within it?
"We have great hope in the new party. We do consider that we will support this party in some way. At no time will we re-form CONAMUS to be part of some political party, but we will support this new party without losing our own identity. We see that this party could include in its platform our demands."
Question: How do you view the New York accords? Will they change your work?
"As an organization of women, we see the accords very positively. Much of what we are demanding is included. We also see that the accords were not signed out of the good will of the government. Rather, they were forced into it. So the government signed because of the demands of the people and because of international pressure. We can see that in some way, we are going to have to change our work because of the accords. And if the ceasefire is signed, we will have to adjust again. But we see this as a very positive sign.
"In eleven years of war the popular movement has been responding to the political reality of El Salvador. Now we see the challenge entering a new phase; we must look ahead and educate our people for reconstruction."
Question: We know there have been death threats against your General Secretary. Why is the ARENA party so threatened by your work? And how is oppression against women manifested by the military?
"Regarding the threats, it is true that she has received many threats. These threats have been responded to and denounced. The government knows very well our work. We have invited them to our activities and have been invited by them to certain meetings in which we would be interested.
"So the way we have responded is this: each time a death threat is received, we start making 'phone calls. We call Mrs. Cristiani, we call Colonel Fuentes. We tell them that we hold them responsible if the threat is carried out, because they have now been informed of it.
"As for ARENA fearing our work, on their part there is no fear. Colonel Fuentes says that there is no repression against CONAMUS. It is more a lack of control. Maybe we just don't understand each other.
"In some way there is actually a kind of recognition of and respect for our work. We are sometimes called into meetings with the government. But we are careful not to be used by them to appear to support the government."
The question about the violence of the military requires clarification. The translator, a woman from CISPES, says to the questioner, "You mean like when a soldier wants to go out with a woman and she doesn't want to go so he throws a grenade into her house?" The questioner affirms that this is an example of what she is asking about.
"We haven't talked about the clinic yet. Of all the rapes reported to us, 80% are committed by uniformed men. These take place in communities with a great military presence. They use their uniform and their rifles to commit the crimes. Then they tell the victim that if she denounces the rape, they know where she lives.
"Here is an example of a specific case. In San Ramon a sixteen year old girl was grabbed by three soldiers of the First Brigade. They locked her in an abandoned shack and kept her for three days, doing whatever they wanted with her. They were armed and had her in the house so that no one knew where she was. When they let her go, she was nearly dead. They told her that if she denounced the incident, she and her family would be killed. Out of fear she didn't tell anyone until a neighbor got her out of the community and convinced her that she didn't have to remain silent.
"The neighbor took her to the Non-Governmental Human Rights Commission, but when she got there, she denied that anything had happened, because her older sisters still lived in the community. Finally she came to our clinic and agreed to make the denouncement but didn't want to press a judicial case. She wanted to get herself and her family out of the community. We helped her get out, but her family had to stay behind. They had a small plot of land and didn't want to leave everything behind. We had the names of the soldiers, because they were known in the community. So we made the denouncement, but the case didn't get very far. Soldiers still operate with impunity."
Question: Do you think that this sort of thing will be addressed with the reform of the military as called for in the accords?
"Yes, it is true that according to the agreements, the armed forces is to be purified, but you have to remember that we are still in El Salvador. What is going to happen to all of those military personnel? We are very afraid. What will happen is that they will go out and strengthen the death squads.
"On the one hand, we have the fear that soldiers will increase the death squads. On the other hand, we fear that they will increase the street crime that we are already seeing. Each day there are assaults on buses, on cars. If the criminals are caught, they almost always turn out to be military. And this is happening even before they are unemployed.
"The problem is that most of these people have no training. All they know is assassination. So we are very afraid."
Question: What is your view on the new civilian police force?
"Just now the country is working on projections for the new police force. We believe that respect for human rights in the new doctrine should include respect for women. It is very important that the rights of women be included in the training of the new police force.
"We are very interested in helping to build this new society, but it is such a big wall, we are still looking for a way to climb it. We are not sure what our role will be in the process."
Question: Women have had a very strong role in the FMLN. Do you see this continuing after the ceasefire?
"We consider it very admirable, the development that the compañas have undergone up in the mountains. To see a woman with a rifle on her back and cradling a baby or making tortillas is a very strong image. We can see that they will have a strong role after the ceasefire."
Question: We have heard that CONAMUS works with all classes. What organizing do you do in the upper classes, for instance, in Escalon?
(The woman who is speaking with us gives a broad laugh.) "This is relative; everyone understands things in her own way. Our work is directed toward the problems of women. Sexual violence takes place in all classes, in the dominating class as well as in the dominated class. So our interest is in women. Violence against women is generalized. A campesino hits his wife; so does a businessman.
"There have been some cases where we have dealt with women from professional or business sectors of the country, but there are different ways of working. If the wife of a businessman wants to make a judicial denouncement, we will gladly help her. If the wife of a unionist or a campesino comes to us, we will deal with it in other ways. We know that the unionist is doing good political work, so we don't want to denounce him to the police. We will work on educating him.
"Up to this point we have helped all women who have come to us. But each case is handled in its own way. If an upper class woman calls us, she is attended to, but they are not our top priority."
Question: Do you have shelters? And is abuse related to alcoholism or drug use?
"Basically that is what our clinic is, it works as a shelter. We've gotten everything mixed up. (She means that in our talk we have gone into the questions before she could tell us in detail about the clinic.)
"The clinic was opened originally in April 1989. It was closed during the offensive and then reopened in March 1990. The first period of operation saw the consolidation of the project. Now we are giving attention to women who come having been mistreated, and also to women who have been sexually assaulted. [The clinic was closed in 1999 due to lack of funding.]
"According to clinic statistics, we are dealing with one victim of sexual assault each day. When a victim comes to the clinic, she receives gynecological attention, psychiatric attention, and judicial assistance. We help the woman fill out forms. If she wants to make a public denouncement, we accompany her in the press conference.
"There are very specific requirements to be able to have someone picked up on a rape charge. The victim must produce two witnesses! The person who was raped must have been a virgin. And there must have been penetration by the penis. It is only considered rape if the hymen was broken. So as you can see, the judicial system is not only created by men, but is also created to protect them. You can see that the problem is so huge; if we as women don't do anything, no one will. So far we have not won one single case.
"We also have the shelter to help women who have been mistreated. This was started in October 1990 and is the first and only shelter for abused women in El Salvador. It has a theoretical capacity for ten women and twenty-five children, but in practice six women plus their children fill it, because most have five or six children with them. The limit is a three month stay. During this three month period, the women participate in a program of consciousness raising. There are also sessions geared to the children. The women have the opportunity to participate in workshops, embroidery classes, etc. When a woman leaves the shelter, we do follow-up with her. We try to organize them into groups for on-going support and for political work.
"It is very difficult for most women to think about alternatives. Most are very dependent economically on their husbands. To leave an abusive situation is to leave their children hungry. Also, frequently the husband comes looking for her, making threats against CONAMUS and against the woman.
"Some men have accused us of running an operation kidnapping women for prostitution. They have arrived at the shelter trying to break down the door. One thing we are trying to address is dealing with better security for the house. Many husbands learned where it was. So we have moved the shelter to a different house. We are also now bringing the women who call to our office first. We ask her to sign a paper stating that she will not divulge the address of the house."
Question: Do you also work in the area of child abuse?
"The problem of violence against children is very large. Many of our rape cases are against children, from age two up to adults. For instance, in the case of a two year old, a father had raped his daughter. But the case was thrown out of court because there was no penetration of the penis; he had done it with his finger."
Question: What is the incidence of marriage in El Salvador? We have heard that many relationships are informal "companions for life." Is divorce an option?
"What is true is that a majority of the people are very religious. Women are taught as young girls to obey their husbands. If a girl goes to her mother and says, 'My husband beats me,' the mother tells her that is her cross to bear. Divorce is legal in this country, but it is not condoned by society. If a woman divorces, it is assumed that she is looking for another man, and this is a sin. Also divorce is very expensive, out of the reach of most people.
"I believe that your work up there (in the United States), pressuring your government to stop military aid, allows us to continue. Your moral support strengthens us. We believe that with faith in God, someday our reality will be different."
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