The following notes have been edited to correct errors and to add explanations and updates. Parenthetical notes and remarks from the original are enclosed in parentheses. Present day [2022] updates are italicized and enclosed in square brackets.
Monday, 14 October 1991 – 3:00 PM – At the UCA (University of Central America)
We arrive early on campus for our meeting with Fr. Antonio Canas so stop in the cafeteria for drinks. I order tea, which turns out to be an herbal tea with sugar already added, not at all what I had wanted and too sweet to be refreshing. There are definite disadvantages to not drinking carbonated beverages. The cafeteria itself is a pleasant structure, open on three sides, with tables and benches in rows, looking more like a fast-food restaurant than an academic institution.
From the cafeteria we walk over to the administration building and are seated in a meeting room. Fr. Canas begins the discussion by asking if there are any specific areas which we want to explore. As our delegates speak, he takes notes on a small pad that he has brought with him.
Linda: Please discuss military reform and the underlying social conditions which caused the war.
Gregg: I am concerned about foreign aid, especially that which comes with strings attached, encouraging privatization. How will that affect Salvadoran society?
George: Would you speak about the role of DEBATE both now and in the future, in the reconstruction.
Linda: When we return to the U.S., we have appointments scheduled in Washington. What is it important for us to stress to our Congressional representatives?
"I have been working for seven years here at the University in information, as editor of the journal 'Processo' and also as a professor. This work is dedicated to analyzing and unraveling the political and economic situation in the country. This is the task that Fr. Ellacuria gave us, and it is one reason that he was killed. [Ignacio Ellacuria SJ was one of the six Jesuit professors at the UCA who, along with their housekeeper and her daughter, were assassinated by the military on November 16, 1989.]
"There are very important negotiations going on in Mexico right now. They touch on the issue of military reform. We have to look at where things are after the New York meetings. The process has been blocked somewhat because of the demands of the FMLN to have verification procedures. First the FMLN demanded the full dissolution of both armies, or a fusion of the two. Lately they speak of a different process – their participation in the command levels of the army while reform is going on. The army rejected these suggestions out of hand. So the UN Secretary General had to find alternative ways to guarantee to the FMLN that the reform process would proceed as agreed without the FMLN's being directly in control. The result was the New York agreement and the formation of COPAZ. There would be five members favoring the government and another five favoring reform, with oversight of the UN Secretary General and the Archdiocese of San Salvador.
"I think that this is the best possibility under current conditions, the most viable alternative that the negotiations have been able to achieve. Through the political parties it gives the general population input and participation. This is the most important point of the agreement. Other minor points are the dissolution of the National Guard and the formation of the Civilian Police. Also, through this process the political parties will be coordinating military reform.
"The 'understandings' which are part of the New York agreement specifically spell out the participation of the FMLN in the civilian police. They make it the most democratic possible, which is also an element in guaranteeing reform. This puts the police in the hands of civilians, not the army. It means that the new Civilian Police will have much more to do with what happens in the country than the army will. They will be able to maintain sovereignty over property. The police will bear arms and will have a reciprocal agreement with the armed forces. Until now there has been no independent force to control or investigate the military. This will be a step toward true control of the army.
"The great importance of what is going on now in Mexico is that they are searching for mechanisms to make concrete what was agreed to in New York City. Now there are better tools for the mediators because the New York accords are a framework with which to confront both sides with what they have already agreed to. Each side will have a much harder time now in trying to delay or undermine the peace process, so there is a good chance for the peace process to move forward.
"It remains to be seen what will be achieved in Mexico. There is always the chance of a coup d'etat. There are some elements of the military which have carried out great violence in the past and are capable of mounting a coup, but we believe that there is much less possibility for this to happen now.
"As you know, the verdict in the Jesuit case was less than acceptable. The military was able not only to carry out the assassinations, but to control the trial process and to control the outcome. Nevertheless, the great outpouring of both national and international pressure kept the military always on the defensive, and it allowed the process to move forward.
"Concerning the social problems of the country, obviously the situation of misery and social injustice in our country causes the conflict. It has been a useless war if we do not address these causes. We are looking for a process we call social concertation – labor, business, and government working in concert together. Programs coming out of the government will have to go through discussions with the other sectors. If the social sectors do not have the power to represent their own interests against the forces of capitalism and the government, it will be useless to say that our country is moving toward reform.
"In reference to foreign aid, aid must be asked for. And aid must be conditioned on the approval of the social forum to assure that reforms have been reached.
"Another theme of the reform is land tenancy. For the moment what has been arranged is that land will remain in the hands of the campesinos who occupy it, even though the occupation is not legal. Also those in conflictive zones are to retain the land they occupy. The reforms must allow the people to retain a certain powerbase of production. Without this minimum amount of property in the hands of the campesinos, everything given to the most poor will continue to be merely alms.
"Here we see the greatest potential for DEBATE in our country. Up until now DEBATE's denouncements in the press have been a source of fear to the government which considers them provocative to the army, given the very unstable period in which we are living. This information is not public yet, but there are some diplomatic persons who have asked DEBATE to maintain as low a profile as possible during the negotiations. I think that this request is reasonable, but this very fact demonstrates the impact that DEBATE has had on our country.
"We need a better distribution of wages. The best way to attack social issues is through the process of concertation which I mentioned earlier. We insist that U.S. aid, which has caused so much destruction, can now contribute to rebuilding. The conflict has had as its root the enormous power concentrated in the hands of a few."
Question: How can El Salvador achieve economic reform and still relate to the rest of the industrialized world, avoiding isolation as Nicaragua experienced after the revolution?
"This deals with privatization, too, a bit. Let us return to the interests of the U.S. in Central America. The U.S. has interests in the region as a whole. It wants each country to have conditions conducive to Bush's Initiatives for Latin America. The U.S. has an ambiguous attitude toward El Salvador. The first objective of the U.S. in El Salvador is to end the conflict with the FMLN debilitated and as small as possible. First they tried military means, then manipulating the negotiations.
"In Nicaragua the FSLN has remained a strong opposition, so they have experienced economic isolation. The main policy of the U.S. is to impose their policies on all of Latin America.
"But another objective is contradictory to this one: they need an army which will be docile to their policies. A band of assassins like the current army, which have been abducting businesspeople, is not helpful to U.S. goals. The problem for the U.S. is to debilitate the FMLN and also to tame the army. So we have the policy of privatization, placing public wealth in private hands. What is achieved is a changing concept of the state and its responsibility to society. The concept of the welfare state is questioned and destroyed by the neo-liberal policies of the U.S.
"Privatization is a radical, extreme move. What effect does it have on society? In El Salvador the great economic enterprises have been in government hands. These include the water system, electricity, telephones. Strong unions have been formed precisely in these enterprises. Privatization would also break the back of the labor union movement. It is a dangerous social transformation. The labor sectors would lose the power to effect social change, to protest. Social forces would not have any way to protect themselves against private enterprise and U.S. interests. This raises incredibly the power of the private sector and demolishes the public and union sectors of society.
"I am not opposed to certain privatization if social protections are maintained. But the university opposes privatization which makes more unequal the different powers in our country. It is very difficult to oppose privatization policies, because the international loan agencies condition loans on these policies. There is external pressure on our country to impose measures causing tremendous hardship.
"We expect peace, but there will still be great confrontation over policies which affect the welfare of society. We never had a welfare state here. We are always imitators of the first world, and we never do it very well. But there was the IRA, which regulated basic prices. There was a subministry of basic grains, which maintained the prices of basic foods within reach of everyone. This has been closed by the current government.
"Some hospitals had been converted to serve the common people. But funds have been cut drastically to these hospitals. The French government donated funds for a public hospital, but it has been turned over to Social Security, and fewer than 15% of the population can participate in Social Security. What did exist is being dismantled. This is the neo-liberal opposition to the welfare state."
Question: Is international aid tied to privatization?
"In the journal called ECCA there appears an account of the official law of our country. In December of 1990 loans from USAID and the International Bank were conditioned on the closing of the IRA, also the closing of INASUCRE, which regulates sugar, and INCAFE, which regulates coffee. The same is true for the Bank of Agricultural Formation. That bank guarantees just prices to small producers. This is what was made public of the agreement with USAID and the World Bank. There is also a secret document which contains the number of public employees which need to be fired within the next several years. This way of acting is a severe imposition against another country; it is not positive."
Question: It appears that the war will move from the military to the economic. What role do you see for solidarity groups, especially for church groups?
"Death from economic injustice has always been far more extensive than death from bullets. Deaths of infants from malnutrition and lack of basic medical care is eight to ten times greater than from the war. This is a terrible way to end the war. Your task is to know well the statistics and to present them with great impact. Solidarity groups will have to find greater strength and resources to continue to work with El Salvador."
Comment: Nicaragua solidarity groups seem to be depressed.
"I think the situation in Nicaragua is more complex. They had a revolutionary government for ten years, during which time activities of solidarity groups saw a period of great development. Then they had to face such a great defeat as the Sandinistas suffered. To an extent their propaganda blames the Sandinistas for the current economic conditions. Here confusion is great, but it is only the government and the U.S. which have been in power, so it is clearer who to blame."
We leave the meeting and stop at the UCA bookstore on the way out. I buy a book of Bible stories about Jesus and women, a pile of recent journals to bring back to the professor who leads the Central American cross-cultural experience groups from Lancaster Theological Seminary, and the first two issues of a feminist magazine. (See the meeting with CONAMUS on Wednesday.]
On the way back to the guest house the van takes us past the Hotel Alameda. We look at it with great curiosity, as this is the hotel at which we always say we are staying when we go through customs at the airport. Someone gets the idea that we should have a picture of the group in front of "our hotel." In a few moments a dozen laughing gringos have piled out of the van and lined up for photos beside the hotel sign near the main entrance, much to the perplexity of hotel personnel and the amusement of our van driver. We take turns taking snapshots, then return to the van and continue on our way.
[Postscript: My notes for the evening read simply “meet with international journalist.” Gene Palumbo, a freelance journalist who had lived for a number of years in El Salvador, was noted for his in-depth knowledge and astute analyses of the present situation. While he was very willing to brief visiting delegations, he met with us despite some danger to himself and his work. We were instructed never to mention him by name nor to take written notes during his presentations. He continues to write for the National Catholic Reporter and other news outlets. Links to a few of his articles can be found here.]
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