The following notes have been edited to correct errors and to add explanations and updates. Parenthetical notes and remarks from the original are enclosed in parentheses. Present day [2022] updates are italicized and enclosed in square brackets.
3 October 1990, 9:00 AM – CRIPDES
[CRIPDES began in 1984 as the Christian Committee of the Displaced. After the Peace Accords were signed in 1992, it became the Association for the Development of El Salvador. Its partnership with SHARE is on-going, strengthening community organizations in their work on justice issues. The SHARE Foundation is a U.S. based non-profit organization committed to supporting and accompanying the people of El Salvador and Honduras in their struggle for social justice and sustainable development. During its early years PVC received security training and assistance in engaging guide/translators from SHARE.]
Our interview begins with brief background remarks. The CRIPDES headquarters was invaded and destroyed in April 1989, and sixty to seventy workers were captured. SHARE gave them the funds to purchase the current location. They are the group which organized the returns from the Honduran refugee camps, Mesa Grande, Colomoncagua, etc. Now they are trying to organize the return to their places of origin or choice of those who are displaced within the country.
We begin by going around the circle and introducing ourselves. The refugee coordinator gives us words of welcome. She says that our presence encourages them in their work with refugees.
Question: How and why was CRIPDES formed?
"There has been social injustice in El Salvador for the past sixty years or more. Thousands of Salvadorans have historically been marginalized, denied the basic rights of housing, land, education. Organizations have formed to respond to this situation. We had a situation where thousands of persons joined together to march in San Salvador and demand their rights. But we have never received a favorable response to our petitions. Always the case has been that when people demand their rights, the government responds with indiscriminate oppression. In 1932 40,000 were slaughtered when they took to the streets. Since then the oppression has intensified. Not only did we have to bear the lack of land, education, medical care, etc., but we also had to put up with the military.
"In 1980 and 1981 there were massive demonstrations. The response again was indiscriminate repression. Streets were littered with bodies - old, young, women, children. The objective of the repression was to keep people quiet, so that we would no longer ask for our rights. This was not simply repression against the demonstrators. They also launched repression in the countryside. Thirty planes and helicopters would destroy houses, crops, and kill whole families.
"We had the rise of the death squadrons, which were given life by the ultraright, especially the ARENA party. Among these organizations were the Union of White Warriors and ORDEN. They would accompany the soldiers, taking whole families and killing them. People were taken out of their houses, tortured, and their bodies left for animals to eat. Thousands were dislocated on a national level, especially in Chalatenango, Morazan, and Usulutan. Thousands of people went into the mountains, especially women and children, while their houses were destroyed by the bombardments. Some fled to neighboring countries.
"On 12 May 1980 peasants left to go to Honduras. For days this group, which included many children, was pursued by the army and death squads. I was with this group. The soldiers opened fire on the people, and they fell row after row. The Sumpul River was very high and swift at the time, but still the people fled into the river so that they would not be shot in the back. Some made it across, but the Honduran army delivered them back to the Salvadoran army. Six hundred peasants were surrounded. The army separated them into groups by age and sex. The men were tortured severely before being killed. The elderly were cut to pieces and thrown into the river. Fetuses were cut out of the pregnant women and cut to pieces. Little children were tossed into the air and shattered against the pavement. The river was filled with bodies and ran red with blood.
"To give the refugees water was considered a crime. We had given food and water to the refugees, so my father and brothers were killed. Chalatenango was not the only site of such massacres. In Copapaya 250 peasants were slaughtered. And there were others. These massacres provoked massive displacements. After years of putting up with hunger and bad living conditions (in the hills), many went to the refugee camps. The government never tried to correct these problems.
"Eventually the refugees saw the need to organize themselves and repatriate back to their places of origin. On 14 July 1984 there was a major assembly of refugees and the displaced, and CRIPDES was formed. The objectives were to make a return to our places of origin and to be able to stay in those places, to bring about an end to the bombardments of the countryside, to gain moral and material indemnification from the government, to end forced recruitment of poor youth, and to end the war.
"The government considered CRIPDES an opposition party because we were fighting for our rights. To fight for human rights and dignity is considered opposition (to the government), so the government considers us a front for the FMLN. This is used as an excuse by the government for repressing, capturing, and assassinating our members. We were always an object of persecution. Leaders in the countryside were captured. Always we had to overcome the obstacle of the government. But a great number of refugees were organized.
"In May of 1986 the National Coordination of Repopulations (CNR) was formed to organize and coordinate the repopulation effort along with CRIPDES. On 20 June 1986 the first repopulated community was established in San Jose las Flores, Chalatenango. This was followed in July 1986 by El Bario, Cuscatlan.
"At the end of 1986 and the beginning of 1987 we heard signals from Mesa Grande that they, too, wanted to return. We started to plan. The government maintained that the people coming back were FMLN. This was to justify the repression of the people returning. Large military forces were deployed to the repopulated areas. After the people came back, strong military operations were launched against each place where they had settled. The idea was to make them desperate to get out, because they were forced to live in subhuman conditions. But the movement to repopulate continued. Our brothers and sisters in the repopulated communities have been forced to live in very bad conditions. Their crops and their houses are repeatedly destroyed, and there is constant bombardment.
"On 11 February 1990 we had the assassination of four children and one adult in Comunidad Ellacuria. This was caused by air bombardment. The next day, the armed forces news reported that five guerrillas had been killed in military operations. We applied pressure for one week so that the truth would be investigated. This was at the time of the Moakley Committee visit.
"A week later the government admitted that it was an air force bomb, but they said that it was not intentional. They offered to pay off the families and close the case, as if they could buy and sell human beings. They offered indemnification to the families, but they never said that they would stop the bombardments or bring the authors (of this atrocity) to justice. Neither we nor the families ever asked for indemnification. Instead, we ask for punishment of those responsible, and an end to the bombing.
"Fifteen days later the attorney general went to investigate. He found a major conflict underway. He went by helicopter, surrounded by the military. The FMLN had announced that helicopters are military objects and would be considered military targets. He went armed himself. (The point here is that the attorney general tried to claim that the FMLN violated the terms of war by firing on him as a civilian, but he traveled armed, in a military helicopter, and surrounded by military, in what was apparently deliberate provocation.)
"This case is the same as the Jesuit case. It still hasn't been investigated, and the government is finding more and more excuses all the time not to investigate. As for the Jesuit case, it is true that soldiers are being detained, but they were under orders. The people know who gave the orders. If the people had the right to judge, those who are guilty would be in prison by now. It is the same with Romero. It is now ten years since he was assassinated, and the case is not solved. Instead of resolution we have more repression. CRIPDES has suffered directly.
"On 19 April 1989 sixty-four of our members were captured in a raid. The majority were women and children from the clinic that CRIPDES was running. We were taken to the Treasury Police, where we were all tortured. It was very difficult listening to little children being beaten and forced to say that they were members of the FMLN. Six of us were sent to the women's prison, and the men were sent to Mariona.
"The army is trying to stop our work. By this imprisonment, they tried to destroy our morale and stop the work that we do. But they forgot that the movement is not just us. There are thousands of others who have picked up the banner of the struggle. They didn't give up, and after four months of imprisonment, we were released. What we have suffered has helped us to develop a consciousness of the importance of our work. We are determined to continue the work to the end.
"In November the government used the offensive as an excuse to seize the headquarters of the popular organizations. Our headquarters was occupied for four months. All our materials were burned. All the files, the office equipment, the desks, the stove, were destroyed. We had two warehouses full of food to go to the repopulated areas, and it was all stolen. Our medical clinic was destroyed and the medicines were stolen. We were told that if we came back to our headquarters, we would be murdered, or disappeared. During that time we were in exile, working in other spaces. We lost communication with the repopulated areas for a time. But we were doing everything that we could on both the national and international levels to get back into our headquarters.
"We asked for a meeting with Ponce [René Emilio Ponce Torres, a senior military officer in the Salvadoran Army], but he denied our request for a meeting, so we continued to bring all the pressure that we could. On 23 February 1990 about a hundred of our workers came during the state of siege to demand that they give back our buildings. There were international delegations accompanying us, as well as the press and the UNHCR. We came with the intention of negotiating with the soldiers. But the response of the soldiers was to scream at us and say that we were FMLN. We asked the soldiers why they said this. Their response was because there were campesinos in our group. In the face of every peasant, they see only a guerrilla.
"We turned to the leader of the First Brigade. He sent three tanks and told us that if we didn't leave the area, he would send in anti-riot squads. Later in the morning, people had to leave to go to other tasks, but we pledged to come back and to continue the struggle to regain our offices.
"On 2 March 1990 we were finally able to meet with Colonel Fuentes. We explained that the situation had eased, and that there was no more reason for him to hold our headquarters. He was very insulting and said that we were nothing but FMLN. We insisted, however, that we would not leave without an agreement. He wanted to deal only with an attorney, but we had no one with legal status on our staff.
"Finally on 5 March we got back our headquarters. We immediately began to repair the building and to resume our work. This is an example of what we have to face in order to work with the displaced. But we are expanding. We have organized 99 communities and are operating in seven of the fourteen departments. We have reached this level of operations thanks to the support of international groups. You can see in Chalatenango the level of development that we have been able to achieve. We have clinics, schools, adult literacy programs. In many communities there are water systems, cooperative work, and organizations for protection."
Question: What is the underlying reason for the government to want to kill people who are fleeing conflict?
"Good question! These communities have been centers of resistance. In the years before we got international attention, it was easy for the government to wipe out these communities. Now these places are known, and international attention makes them a thorn in the side of the government. So the government has to pay a price for any repression, because of the international attention, but still they repress the communities, despite the political cost.
"They know that because we have been victims of torture and repression, we will not support the government. Returnees will join the struggle for human rights and for peace. The government has sent in civil defense squadrons, but the people don't want them. The civil defense units were created to maintain government control and repression."
Question: What is the number of refugees left in the camps in Honduras?
"There are 1500 left in Mesa Grande. They have said that they want to return in December or January. They have two possible sites for their repopulation efforts. A commission from the camp will come to inspect these sites and make the final decision."
Question: How did you escape the slaughter at the River Sumpul?
"My family was there giving shelter and food to those who were running. We could see the bullets fly and the bombs fall. We in CRIPDES are ones who have seen and suffered directly. We all know what bombardments are. Seven of my brothers and sisters have been assassinated, as well as my father. This is what inspires us to do our work."
Question: What is your perspective of the peace talks?
"At the beginning of the talks, it inspired hope and expectation for peace. But as the talks continue, we see that it becomes more and more difficult to reach a diplomatic solution. Here they continue to violate human rights daily. The government signs accords, but they continue the bombardments, the captures, the assassinations.
"We have concluded that we cannot have peace and democracy as long as the military is in control. We have people from the military put on civilian clothes and go into the government, but these are still the same ones who are criminals, corrupt, assassins. As long as there is no purging and purification of the military, we cannot have peace. On this point the government has been totally inflexible. They don't suffer the effects of war; they only gain from war. In such a situation the violations of rights will continue. There are no guarantees that the repression will end. So how can they ask for a ceasefire? As long as they don't purge the military, war will continue. Their version of purging is to rotate personnel!
"We ask that you go back to your country and demand an end to the aid. To continue aid is to continue the bloodbath of Salvadoran people. Your government must bring pressure on our military. Why would we want fifty thousand men in arms to continue the repression? You are part of the struggle. With your help we can achieve a real peace, not the peace of the cemetery as the military and the government want, but peace where human rights are respected. Our government has been increasing the oppression recently."
-Second woman: "Basically, I work in publicity. We put out a monthly newspaper, which gives a summary of human rights violations."
Question: Where is the seat of power in your country?
"The heart of the power is in the High Command of the armed forces, which is being supported by the U.S. embassy. Power is in the armed forces under the guidance of the U.S. embassy. Sometimes the government says one thing and the army does something else. Cristiani [Alfredo Cristiani, ARENA Party member, President of El Salvador 1989 – 1994] is an accomplice in the war and repression."
Question: Please give your opinion of the elections in 1989.
"One thing is very clear. As long as the war continues, there cannot be clean and free elections in El Salvador. The oligarchy controls the means of communication. Here we have the ARENA party, consisting of the oligarchy and the coffee growers, already making noise about the next election. People can't vote freely without guarantees about the armed forces. Many people, especially the displaced, have been unable to get registration documents. The government resists issuing these documents, even though the people apply for them. We are willing to go through the required process; we believe in elections. But as long as the war continues, what does voting mean?"
Question: What kind of document do you need to vote?
"First is the basic ID document. Among the displaced we have 29,000 who don't have this basic document. Many of the children who were born in the refugee camps were not registered, so they have no birth certificates. The papers cost five colones per person. Poor families cannot afford this for all their members. We believe that it is the obligation of the government to give these documents. We have presented a bill to the legislature to make these documents free, but the bill hasn't gone anywhere."
Question: Even if a reform-minded person were elected, would it make any difference?
"The heart of the problem is the military."
Question: Press reports have told us that it is mandatory by law for Salvadoran people to vote. How can this law be resolved with the government's not issuing registration documents?
"Traditionally people have voted in El Salvador, but we elect president after president and all we get is a deepening of the oppression. The parties make wonderful promises, but the only thing that happens once they get into office is that they get richer off of the sweat of the people.
"The people have felt that the elections were fraudulent, so more and more people opt out of the elections. We had a situation where ARENA received much backing from the oligarchy, which saw itself collapsing. So they put all of their money behind Cristiani. The government supports the rich. As a result of the war, many mayors' offices and city halls have been burnt down, which also complicates things."
Copyright ©2022 Marian L. Shatto
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